Source: United States House of Representatives – Congressman Jason Crow (CO-06)
WASHINGTON — Congressman Jason Crow (D-CO), Ranking Member of the House Armed Services Subcommittee on Intelligence & Special Operations, pressed Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Elbridge Colby on following the law, defending the Constitution, and whether servicemembers should follow unlawful orders.
Under questioning from Crow before the House Armed Services Committee, Colby declined to answer outright.
Last year, Congressman Crow, along with five other Democratic lawmakers with military or national experience, filmed a video reminding troops of their oaths to the Constitution. In response, President Trump called for his arrest, prosecution, and execution, and pressured both the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia to harass and intimidate Crow with bogus investigations. The Department of Justice tried but failed to convince a grand jury to bring criminal charges against Crow and the other veteran lawmakers.
You can watch the full exchange here.
Congressman Jason Crow: I’ll start with some very simple [questions]. You’re the senior policy official within the Pentagon, correct?
Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Elbridge Colby: Yeah, I think that’s fair to say.
Crow: So you’re familiar with the Uniform Code of Military Justice?
Colby: I would say I’m obviously familiar with it in generic terms.
Crow: And you’re not a lawyer, but you’re familiar with it?
Colby: I went to law school, but I’m not a lawyer.
Crow: Okay, so you know how the law works. You are familiar with the Law of Armed Conflict.
Colby: Again, I’m not an expert. I’m not, you know, in an official capacity, I’d want to be careful.
Crow: But you’re familiar with the Law of Armed Conflict.
Colby: Yeah, sure.
Crow: Okay. And so, you know that Congress’s job is to conduct oversight of the executive branch, correct?
Colby: Certainly.
Crow: And that includes a responsibility to make sure that laws are being followed, is that right?
Colby: Yes, I think so.
Crow: Okay. Do our soldiers get trained on the Law of War?
Colby: My understanding is that they do.
Crow: Our servicemembers get trained on the Law of War.
Colby: I’m not an expert on that, but that’s my understanding.
Crow: Do you believe that it’s possible for an order to be unlawful? Illegal?
Colby: I mean, yes, of course.
Crow: So, there is a difference between lawful orders and unlawful orders?
Colby: Yes.
Crow: And you’re a very bright person. You’ve studied history, you know history well, I’ve read a lot of your stuff. You’re familiar that there has been an American military history, instances of unlawful orders being given, correct?
Colby: Absolutely.
Crow: And servicemembers refusing to abide by those lawful orders, is that correct?
Colby: Yes. I’m not familiar with specific incidents when you’re getting to that level of specificity,
Crow: But there have been?
Colby: Yeah, I imagine.
Crow: So is it a problem for somebody to say that a servicemember shouldn’t follow an unlawful order?
Colby: Sir, this is not a matter I’ve been involved in, but I think there’s a difference between recognizing those circumstances and taking action designed to [inaudible].
Crow: It’s pretty simple. It’s a pretty simple question. You said that there’s a difference between lawful and unlawful orders. You said that you’re familiar with the Law of Armed conflict. You admitted that it’s the duty of this body to conduct oversight, and to make sure that laws are being followed. You said that you’re familiar with U.S. military history, and that there have been unlawful orders given in our history. And then you’re also familiar that servicemembers have also refused to abide by those unlawful orders. So why can’t you just say that service members shouldn’t follow unlawful orders?
Colby: Sir, I think that’s a different step to talk about…
Crow: Seems like a pretty logical step to me.
Colby: …that’s not I mean, we can refer to the Office of General Counsel if you want to get into a legal matter that’s starting.
Crow: It’s not a legal matter. It seems like a pretty, for the senior official at the Pentagon, responsible for establishing policy for our Department of Defense, it seems like a pretty basic thing to say, given what you just acknowledged and what we just walked through, that servicemembers shouldn’t follow illegal orders.
Colby: Well, I take the Law of Armed Conflict and ensuring that we’re being lawful and moral in our conduct very seriously, but I’m also, one thing that is not always reported in the public, I’m very conscious of what my responsibilities are and what they’re not. And so if you like, I can get you an answer on that point, happy to do so.
Crow: I think it’s a problem that you can’t state the obvious here. And I think moral clarity is important as a leader, and I think your lack of willingness to be morally clear, and what is a pretty basic question, given what I asked you, is a real problem. Let me just pivot for a minute to Operation Epic Fury. You were involved in briefings in advance of the commencement of that operation, correct?
Colby: Can you be specific?
Crow: You were aware of the operation before it started, correct?
Colby: Yes.
Crow: Did the administration brief private sector officials, oil and gas executives, companies, businesses with interests in the Middle East before that operation commenced on Friday?
Colby: I’m not sure, Congressman. I can get an answer back to you then.
Crow: I will follow through. I want a commitment because it came to light after Venezuela that the administration actually briefed private sector companies, energy companies, before that operation, before briefing Congress. Right now, there are thousands of Americans stranded because there’s no evacuation plan. I would like to know whether the administration took the time to brief private companies and executives, but didn’t take the time to brief this oversight body, and also make plans to evacuate civilians, and our constituents before setting off a regional war.
Colby: Well, sir, I’ll get an answer for you.
Crow: Thank you, I yield back.
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